Untethered Consciousness

Then I landed in a place that was solid.

It still had this sort
of other side feel to it.

But it was a facility.

It was a room.

It was indirect lighting there.

There was equipment gurneys and tables.

And right in front of me,

there were these three
short little hooded guys.

And they were about four foot tall and
they had on these dark robes with a hood

and they were overjoyed to see me.

And they were giggling and
bouncing around, they were bumping

into each other and I was just,
in a a state of, amazement.

My guest today is Bill Letson, who's a
former firefighter who had a near death

experience after he contracted the flu.

Bill, welcome.

And thank you so much for
coming on the show today.

Thank you, Rod.

It's my pleasure.

It's quite an honor to be
interviewed from Australia.

All right.

Is it your first time somebody
from Australia has interviewed you?

I think so.

Oh, cool.

Well, I'm glad to be the first.

I guess there's not many people who do
what I do, at least not at this stage.

I imagine in five years time,
there'll probably be loads of us.

Will be.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay.

So, well, how about you give us a little
bit of your background growing up?

Cause I'm always interested in that.

And then tell us about your NDE?

Yeah, I grew up here in
California little town,

played sports and got interested in the
fire department for, when I was about 18.

And once I got on a fire crew at 19
years old and you get out there and that,

and it's real thrilling for a
teenager and I just fell in love

with it and never looked back.

And, I was with the Forest Service, U.

S.

Forest Service for 10 years and did all
that stuff, helicopters and backcountry

ranger and engines and hot shots.

And got on with Santa Barbara County
full time when I was in my late twenties.

And I retired, it was 35 years.

I retired in 2010 and yeah,
it's wonderful life here.

NDE.

35 years.

That's a long time to
have the same occupation.

And you always enjoyed
turning up to work every day?

I loved every shift.

I would have done it for free.

Yeah it had everything,

it was exciting and it was dangerous.

And and you were helping people

and I didn't really realize how powerful
that was until I was in my thirties.

Cause you know, I was just a young guy
and I started realizing, that it really

hit me in the heart, when you cut an
old guy out of a car or something, it

was like, you go to bed at night going,
man, this is, it's a crazy job really,

if you can really affect people's lives.

When you're doing something that can
really affect people like that, I guess

you can sort of take it for granted
because you're all doing the same thing.

Everybody in your team, everybody you
work with is all doing the same thing and

then occasionally an event occurs where
you kind of go, whoa, we just did that.

yeah, we just did it.

And, sometimes you about two,
every two or three years,

you'd get burned over or
electrocuted or something.

And that's just the nature of
firefighters it's hazardous.

I remember a couple of times,
a family would say, you, you

landed hard in that helicopter.

People got hurt and it's
like, well, it's worth it.

We were doing something cool.

We were, back country rescue.

And so, yeah, it's a great job.

Yeah, we were talking, when we
were talking off air, so my parents

well, my dad's like 72, 73 now, and
he's a volunteer firefighter, so he

kind of manages and coordinates the
local all the fire brigades around

the county, I guess, in your terms.

And you're talking about burned
over, yeah, he got burned

over once, so he was out.

We call them utes here, in his truck and
he had water on the back and there's a lot

of tall trees and it was a really windy
day and just the wind like reversed, came

the other way and by the time they'd like
radiated what was going on, he was like,

I'm blocked, like I can't get out of it.

That'd be a pretty scary moment.

I imagine that's probably
happened to you as well.

Obviously he survived, but he had
to go right over, went straight

over the top of his truck.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've been in a few of those.

A couple of them are written up there.

And the guys behind us in
another truck didn't survive.

And, there was a few of
those in my career, but I, a

couple of times I was like,

man, I'm never going to make
it to retirement at this.

At this rate, but I did,
it was kind of surprised.

And but looking back, it
was, all of it was worth it.

I'm glad I hung in there.

Yeah.

All right.

So, well, obviously your NDE occurred
at some point during your career.

Oh, he gets stuck into that.

Yeah, it was 1994.

I was working in Santa Barbara
on a paramedic engine and I

was, Driver, the engineer, and

we had a four man crew, a couple
of paramedics and captain and

me, and we were running calls.

It was a typical flu season, but it
was a powerful flu, and we went to

a patient, and I got exposed to her.

We were getting her into the hospital,
and I took a deep breath of her breath,

and a few days later, I was super
ill, and things were, Fading

fast one couple of days into it.

I just couldn't, I couldn't get ahead
of what the flu was doing to me.

And I was dehydrated.

My blood pressure was dropping out.

My pulse was racing.

When those two start going different
directions, that means your body's

trying to compensate for, not
having enough blood circulating.

And I figured it out sort of, and
I called for help and eventually

the My fire department showed
up, got me in an ambulance.

They got some IVs in me.

And by the time I got to the
hospital, they put me in a room in

the emergency room and the place was full
of kids and full of adults, all this flu

was really, going hard on the community.

And they were trying to get
ahead of all the people coming in

because they couldn't see them.

So they were, they just kind of
broadcast prescribed this, something

for pain and something for nausea.

And when the nurse came in, she put it
in really fast and, I just keeled over

you're supposed to count those things
in, but it wasn't, I mean, I never felt

anything I was never mad about that
or anything because it led to this.

event and it was, it's a
really life changing event.

When those things happen to you,
you have to realize that, you're

not really in charge of this life.

It's kind of a scripted thing and
you're going to have these challenges

and you just roll with them.

And that's kind of how I looked at that.

And so my wife was
there and I just tanked.

My blood pressure just
went all the way out.

I mean, I came in there on my
knees with a low blood pressure

and that just dropped it.

painkiller med was a, vasodilator
opens up all your vessels.

So my, there was no more,
there was no more pressure.

There was no more volume
to get the perfusion.

And so, so I was out cold and
they couldn't get me back.

My wife was there.

She told me all this and she was
writing things down and she said,

they Narcan'd you immediately.

And she wrote it down three times.

They Narcan'd you at like five
minute, 10 minute intervals

and they couldn't get you back.

The highest blood pressure
she heard was 40 over zero.

And yeah, that's barely hanging on.

And you and I were talking about that
athletic stuff before we came on and I

was, at that time I was doing Iron Man's.

One of those nutty guys that,
swims before work and runs at

lunch and, cycles on his days off.

hardcore.

And I was just, and they said that
you had such an efficient system.

It's probably why you survived
because the vitals were just tanked.

They shipped me up to intensive care and
put a bunch of, monitoring stuff on me and

oxygen and fluids and head down
type stuff and hope for the best.

And it was about 3.

30 in the afternoon
when all this happened.

And somewhere in the middle of the night,
as far as I can recollect somewhere in

the middle of the night, I left my body.

And I was no longer Bill.

And I was flying through
this sea of stars.

And they were these beautiful colored
orbs and they had all different colors

and energy and tones and radiating
all of this welcoming, this

love and acceptance and joy.

And as I was coming into the realization
of that I was this, that I'd been let

out of this hot, stuffy, dark closet.

And then I was this huge
expanded cloud of some sort.

It seemed like I went on forever.

And, but I was still me.

I wasn't Bill, the voice in
your head that narrates your day

and, tells you, I was still me.

That was a seamless transition.

I was still me, but I
wasn't a human being.

And and the first thing I
thought was, man, what was that?

That was rough.

What I meant by that was this
human this time as a human.

That was, I was just really startled
that it was such rough duty.

And I was really happy to be free of that.

And I was, as I was flying along,
once that cleared, the thing

that was going on in my head was,

how in the world did I
forget who I really was?

How is it possible that I believed
I was this guy, this dude who had

all these problems, had and, what
his opinion on this and that was

and who was cool and who wasn't and.

What the future was gonna hold for him.

All of that stuff.

And I was deep into it and all
of that stuff was an illusion.

It was a game that we play here.

It's like, a trick or almost a joke

and not downplaying anybody's
importance in life, but it's almost

a joke we play on ourself to see.

How close we can get to
figuring out who we really are.

I think that is the end goal.

We figure out who we really are
and then we navigate that the

other side when we first, when we
die and we first leave our bodies.

And we're not in a state of
confusion or a fit of uncertainty,

as Tom Campbell puts it,

I think that's well put because we,
you know, it's a mental universe.

And once we start down some
road, some thought road.

We're creators.

We're creating confusion.

We're creating things that trip us up.

So yeah, it's a whole thing, I
think, is to keep our wits about

us when we transition back.

So I was flying along and I
was just absolutely stoked.

It was, Like, all of my cells were being
tickled and like, I was, everything,

every atom was, like, giggling.

It was like a cool breeze
blowing through everything,

and honey was being poured over my
head, and everything was just, it

was just lit up, it was euphoria, and
I've uh, unashamed to say that from

the, every time I've told the story,
I've used the word, Cosmic orgasm.

And that is exactly what it felt.

Not a, not the way we understand
it here, but just this incredible,

joyful, overpowering euphoria.

So I was flying along and
I was loving all of it.

And I said, this is awesome.

I'm home.

And you know, there, if I thought
about something, it was immediate,

like the old microfiche, you'd go to the
library and you'd spin that microfiche

and you'd see pages.

Like if you were looking at a math book
or something, you'd see formulas, you'd

see calculations, you'd see geometry.

And those things, we hear about

the

Akashic records and, it's like
this universal mind and everything

is available to us instantly.

And I didn't really understand it at
the time, but I just saw diagrams and

formulas and lots of math just coming
at me in like pages and going past.

You can't bring any of that back,
at least certainly not a fireman.

But so, I was flying along
thinking, this is awesome.

I'm back to who I was.

I'm out of that, whatever I signed
up for that gig, that trick that

I was involved in, and then I
landed in a place that was solid.

It still had this sort
of other side feel to it.

But it was.

It was a facility.

It was a room.

It was indirect lighting there.

There was equipment gurneys and tables.

And right in front of me, there were
these three short little hooded guys.

And they were about four foot tall

and they had on these dark robes with a
hood and they were overjoyed to see me.

And they were giggling and bouncing
around, they were bumping into each other

and I was just, in a state of, amazement.

And so I was just looking at
them, whatever that means.

It's a lot of people say,
well, you didn't have eyes.

Well, no, I didn't have eyes,
but I was looking at things and,

Do they have faces?

Yeah, they had faces, they were smiling,

and the faces were just kind of these
frumpy, kind of like a stovepipe that's

been crunched down they had these
layers, they had big smiles, and these

guys were super joyful and playful,

and, they were confident, they knew who
they were, they knew who I was, and one

of them came forward and looked me up
and down, Because I was very confused.

I was just like, what's going on now?

I just got used to that other place and

He came and looked me up and down
and then he turned to the other ones

and he said he doesn't remember us

and They all started giggling uproariously
and bouncing around and you know slapping

each other on the back and I was really
confused and I was like, well guys,

I you know, no offense, but I
kind of remember you But this is

this is very strange place for me.

I wasn't afraid at all.

I was, I felt completely safe
and loved and more so than,

walking downtown in Los Angeles.

They sound

and they were very, pardon

they sound like Ewoks,
the Ewoks in Star Wars.

The little jolly guys, furry guys that
are about three feet tall bouncing around.

That's what they sound like.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They there's a lot of that.

And I say that often that they're
in our media, in our mainstream.

Movies and song lyrics and TV shows
and songs and books and stuff.

There are a lot of references
to, this divine side of us that

we don't know anything about.

We have heard these stories of religion
and science and history and, the

popular culture and the vast majority
of us believe we have all the answers

and those stories are coming to us on
screens and you know those screens When

we look at something with our eyes, it
goes straight into our subconscious.

That's sort of how the universe
Communicates people say they see their

life review and they see these screens.

And so it's yeah, it's a very powerful
story that we get And it's all,

it's not a conspiracy or anything.

It's all cool.

We signed up for it.

This is the most difficult time in the
great year, the 24, 000 year cycle.

This, we're coming out of it right
now, and this is the hardest time.

To be alive because it's
everything's so confusing.

The messages are there just like
the Ewoks and the Munchkins.

And in that movie Communion
Christopher Walken is, he's in

some sort of a facility and.

He's bouncing around with these guys and
they, those guys that are in that movie,

they looked exactly like the guys I saw.

Right.

Exactly.

And that's, that's supposed to be
a horror movie and get fearful,

but if you watch that movie and turn
the sound off and watch those guys.

They're cool.

They're high fiving Christopher Walken
and there's children in that facility

and they're playing with them looking
after them and these guys are dancing

around and everything's very playful and
joyful and that's exactly what I saw.

It's exactly what I experienced.

So yeah, the universe is nothing
to be fearful of, but we come here

into this this earth realm, this
earth plane for the fear lessons.

And we're supposed to get control of
that, no matter how confounding it can be,

but we're supposed to get control of it.

And.

Move on knowing what we
really are and without fear.

So there was another guy there.

And so these guys were fun and
I'm bouncing around with them.

And then in the background,
there was this tall guy.

He was this tall,

I call him the tall wispy guy because
he was like, he was made out of vapor

or smoke or like a spinning liquid.

And, if you put you take a glass
of water and spin it really fast

and then you have that whirlpool

and that's what he looked
like, I've called him a Gumby.

It looked like I was looking at somebody
underwater and he was this spinning wispy

dude, had a big smile on his face and.

When he came forward, he separated, like,
part of the whirlpool pulled off the top,

and then the rest of it caught up, his
legs caught up, or his arms caught up,

and it came back together, and he was
like this wispy moving guy, and obviously

he was the man in that environment,
and without being the man, there wasn't

any power to him or anything like that.

And, but he had this
incredible power of love.

And when he came towards me with this big
smile, big eyes open and chuckling the

whole way, as he came close, you could
tell he was just stoked to see me drop

in and as he got closer My chest just
felt like it was being over pumped like

a tire and my throat clamped down and

I felt like I was going to fall
to my knees and break down in

uncontrollable crying from love.

There was so much love coming from
this being that it was paralyzing.

It was overwhelming.

And he came closer and we had some sort of
exchanges and every time I said anything,

anytime I thought of speaking and I
spoke from our position of understanding

communication, whenever I said anything,
he just had this chuckle over and over

and I could feel his chuckle inside of me.

And at one point, I said,
there wasn't much going on.

The little guys were bouncing
around and they were giggling

and very playful and joyful.

And me being a fireman, you
got policies and guidelines and

you get to work type of thing.

And and he was just chuckling at them
and he was chuckling at me cause I

was starting to try to take over.

And I think what was so funny was, I just
arrived and I was just this, like this

toddler, like some sort of copy of him
where there's thousands of copies of him.

And I was just considered
a cosmic toddler.

And, I was trying to, Make suggestions.

And one of them was

I'm not going back there.

I'm not going back to Bill.

That's absolutely non negotiable.

And I go, so with

final.

That's what I was.

Like a little two year old
with his hands on his hips.

And I said, so, are we
going to what's next?

Should we do a review of my life?

Are we going to go through that?

And, cause I was thinking
I, I need to move on.

I got a taste of that limitless
world in the stars and the orbs.

Absolutely limitless, absolutely infinite.

And so I wanted to get out of
that facility and, get to it.

And so I said, you guys want to,
you guys want to start with that?

You want to start with
a review of my life?

And he just cracked up.

He thought that was hysterical that the
little toddler was going to run things.

But he was cool and he said,
yeah, sure, sure, little toddler.

How do you want to start?

And said, okay.

So I started telling some stories about
things that I wish I'd done differently.

No big regrets, just there weren't
any, it wasn't anything really.

That big, I was just trying to fill it
in and check this box so I could move on.

And, I talked about my wife and
how when we came out of college,

I got offered this park service job
out on an island and we were going

to be, it was like a hour helicopter
ride off the coast and we're going

to be on this island and we're going
to, manage the foxes and some groups

would come out once every few weeks.

We give them a tour.

Some professors or something.

And other than that, we were on
our own to look after those little

cottage out on this San Miguel Island.

And.

And she wanted that.

She's never ever said anything, but she
said, we really should take this job.

It's when are we going to get a chance
to live on an island by ourselves?

I was like, yeah, it
sounds kind of boring.

You know, We were in our twenties and
I wanted, I wanted more excitement.

I'd been on a helishot cruise
and, backcountry stuff and it's

exciting camaraderie's there
with all the guys and stuff.

And I loved it.

And so I took a fire job, she's
never really lobbied for anything,

but she did want to do that.

And so I brought it up and I talked
about it a little bit and I brought

up a couple of other things.

And then right in the middle
of, some rap I was working on.

He just goes, okay, that's enough.

And he stepped forward like
a father, playtime's over.

And he said, time to go back.

And that just, that shocked me.

I was like, what?

Go back?

There's no way I'm not going back there.

You gotta be kidding.

And he goes, no, you gotta go back.

You got things to do
and they're important.

I tried several times and at one point
I said, no you guys don't understand.

That place is gnarly.

It's super hard, and I've
had a absolutely charmed life.

You can tell the ball has
bounced my way every time.

Career and education
and parents and family.

It's, and I'm absolutely grateful
and appreciate all of it.

But that was, from the other side,
looking back at this place the burden

that we carry with those emotions that
don't exist, those low vibe emotions

like jealousy and anger and, we're all
capable of it we can all get there and

it's a devastating feeling compared to
what is really going on in the universe.

That it is just this pure love
sort of existence, fun, and

you don't have to earn it.

You already are it.

So I tried a few more things.

I told him, look, I'm
almost 38, or I'm almost 40.

I was 38 at the time.

I'm almost 40 and I don't really
have any more to contribute.

I'm pretty much, just this burned
over guy, and I'll be an old guy soon.

And he laughed at everything I tried just.

Thought it was hysterical.

And I told him that, I got lots
of friends, but they'll be fine.

They'll think of me, but they
won't be harmed by my demise.

But my parents and my wife, they're
going to hurt for a couple of

weeks, but they'll come through it.

They're strong people.

And he thought that was real funny.

And he said, all right, that's enough.

Come on, you're going back.

And he came towards me and It was
obvious that we think we have this

free will and things like that.

And and we don't we are at the um,
have complete power over us, what

dimension we're in where we're
going, and it's best to just...

Get on their page and, do your thing here.

So yeah, he, so he came forward and
I felt everything just breaking up.

I felt the room coming apart and I felt a
sinking feeling like a lower vibration, a

lower frequency, felt like I was dropping
away and he just sort of dissolved in

front of me, spun away into nothing and I
dropped away into darkness and when I got

down near my body, I was in this place.

I knew I was close to my body

and I was in this place that was dark and
lonely and dismal, and you didn't want

to, absolutely did not want to be there.

And, a lot of people ask me,
you think that was hell or, and.

It could have been that, yeah, there
is a realm directly next to us where,

it's a realm of low vibrations where
people who don't do too well in this life

they're stuck, we call them ghosts
and spirits and things like that.

They're confused.

And I think it could be that,
that realm was devastating.

And, but it was also, I think,
cause I knew I was near my body.

And I think when we reintegrate.

With, the body who has that ability
to hold those low vibrations that it's

just like, it's like a dropping a ton
of rocks on you with energetically.

It's, and that's why, a lot of
NDEers, if you, when they wake up,

they're pissed,

Yeah.

some of them are yelling, how,
what do you, what did you do, send

me back, and also when a baby's

They come into this world crying

Yeah.

They're pretty pissed too, aren't they?

? I never thought of that.

Yeah, they're pissed.

It's and these are eternal souls that
with incredible intelligence and that

soul is speaking through that baby.

It's the first words is like, God dang it.

I'm in this place.

It's rough.

So yeah, I was back in my body and
it was the machines were taking

my blood pressure and stuff.

So they'd wake me up and I'd look at
the numbers and I watched them, the

vitals climb, the numbers were lit
in the dark and I was watching it.

Climb and climb.

And pretty soon I could stay awake.

And that's probably around four
or something when I came back and

it was probably five 30 or six.

And I kind of was sitting up a little
bit and saying, okay, I'm back here.

And the nurse came by and it's
like, she was just like shocked.

She's like, you're awake.

And I'm like, yes, I am.

I need to talk to you.

And she said, well, I need to go
tell a doctor where you've been.

Special project all night.

We didn't know if you were coming back.

We didn't know what, how
you got this far gone.

And I said, okay, that's great.

You can go get the doctor
and we can all talk about it.

Well, first, what am I doing back here?

Was that pissed.

And I told her I was home.

I was with my best friends.

I've known forever.

How is it that I got back here?

I was dead.

I had bought the farm.

I was sure of it.

And she had put her hands on
my shoulders and she said,

honey, you've been in escrow,

but you've fallen out of escrow and now
you're back with us and you're going

to have to get your head around that.

And I've talked to people
channels and mediums.

Mediums are really good for
me to talk to because they're

in that world all the time.

They know exactly.

And a lot of them call me and
say, you're describing this.

The other side passed the veil.

Exactly what I've, moved
in since I was a child.

And so this medium I met
her and had lunch with her.

And she said, that was the most
powerful thing that could have happened

to you because she grounded you.

That nurse told you, you're back
in your body and there's nothing

you're going to do about it.

So.

Get your head around it.

And, some really powerful
awesome people in the years,

they'll go through years of depression.

Some of them will, find addiction because
coming into this world is a shocker.

It's a tough one.

And so, yeah if you do go through

something like that and eventually
you'll get with the yogis or a

spiritual teacher or something.

And they'll come up with the phrase,
chop wood and carry water, which

means get up every day and do the
daily things to keep your life going.

Get your head in, in your work, in your
life and keep it going because you're

on a journey, you're on a mission
from the other side and, make them

proud, make the higher vibrational
choices and, this is a wonderful gift

this life is, and it's going to be
full of challenges, but face them.

And, we came to, to learn
from our challenges.

So, the doctor showed up and the guys
in the fire department showed up.

My family showed up and I'm just like,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You guys need to understand this,
we don't know what we're doing here.

It's, it is a wonderful almost
a cartoon world on the other

side and it's all joyful

and I got the kook label pretty fast

they were like, how much
fentanyl did they give to Bill?

Can you, did you check the dose ? Yeah.

yeah and I I learned to dummy up
and fit in and it worked out okay,

but I always knew that it was real and if
I was in a bookstore, I'd tiptoe into the

woo woo section and look for something
that might give me some answers and the

Eckart Tolle books were good and and
there's this woman who wrote My Stroke

of Insight Jill Bolte Taylor and she was
a brain specialist for Harvard and she

had a stroke and she said when she had
her stroke that she was in both worlds.

And floating between both worlds.

And, when I said that I was let out of
a hot, dark closet and I was this huge

expanded cloud balloon flying through
space, and she said, I felt like I

was a genie released from her bottle.

And I was this euphoric whale
flying through a sea of ecstasy.

And.

I'm like, okay, this is real.

So, so yeah, that's my story.

And I dummied up till 2010 and then
I retired and around 2012, that was,

that was a powerful energetic year for
the whole planet, this whole supposed

to be the end of the world, but it was
actually the beginning of a new type of

human that's going to be more energetic.

And that's what we see right now.

The energy of the planet is going up,

it's why the fires burn
hotter if you gaze at the sun,

don't do that because it's dangerous,
but if you did it, first thing in the

morning, when it first comes there are
color codes and it's pulsing wildly,

and, the the thing with global warming,
it's a the frequency of the planet is

going up, just like you're turning the
heat up on a pot of water, it's, things

are more active and things are more
active spiritually and a lot to people.

Well, the last year and a half has
been incredible with the podcast

interest and it's fun to watch.

It's for real that, there's
a divine hand in our material

world and we're going places.

And it's super exciting.

You just reminded me that it was like
March, I think, and I saw, I, I can't

even remember the exact event I saw.

It wasn't the first time I'd
seen an N D E testimonial.

But the immediate thought
was, oh, I've got to do that.

I was like, what?

I wasn't even doing anything like that.

I mean, I, but I had an interest in
it, like, since I was a child, right?

I thought, yeah, I've got to do that.

My wife thinks, she
still thinks I'm crazy.

But yeah, here we are.

Here we are.

I've got dozens of these interviews and
every time I make eye contact with you

guys, usually before we start and I say,
what do you, how'd you get into this?

And every one of them have a story
like that, where I just suddenly

felt this was what I need to do.

And, I tried, there's a lot of
people in Hollywood making movies

and stuff documentaries and.

One time I was doing this thing
and I got these guys and I said,

all right, come on, level with me.

Is there some guy in the area
that's organizing all you guys?

Some producer, somebody, and
they're like, no, all of them.

So it's not some conspiracy
theory or something.

It's, if it's a conspiracy
from the divine to enlighten.

yeah, 100%, and if there was, like, if
there was even a hint of somebody, like,

trying to tell me, you've got to do this
particular thing, I'd be like, Piss off.

I'm not doing that.

I'm going to do my own thing.

Thanks very much.

So, yeah, I'm like the complete opposite
of what they might be looking for.

So there was something that you, there's
this, I've got so many questions, Bill.

The first thing, well it's not really
a question, it's just an observation

about the nurse, like the service that
she did you, by not trying to deny

your experience, and to downplay it,
it was almost like, yeah, I know where

you've been, you're coming back now,
and this is how it is, so, that's pretty

amazing, and as you say, that kind of
makes me wonder, like I have friends

who are emergency ER nurses and whatnot,
and I think there's a lot of things

changing in hospitals, but it does make
me wonder like how valuable training

for those people and understanding
that this is a real phenomena and

this is a great way to handle it.

Your example was perfect, I think.

Yeah, I was super lucky and she was a,
she was an old timer, this gum chewing,

no nonsense nurse and and yeah, she put
her hands on my shoulders and it's listen

to me, you're back with us get over it.

And, you tell a fireman that
it's like, okay, got it, man.

She knew exactly what to
say and how to say it.

There's something you mentioned
about the 24, 000 year cycle.

Now, I'm pretty sure I've read
about this in the book of Ra.

I'm not sure where you've got it and I
don't understand much about it, but could

you tell us more your understanding?

It sounds like you've done loads of
reading since you've had your NDE, but

what's your understanding of that cycle?

I did this thing with the ayahuasca
and I was going to the jungle

for like three or four years.

And then this.

thing opened and I had
all these amazing visions.

And when I got back here, just
like you, I had this thing where

I need to go to this conference on
procession and ancient knowledge,

I just packed up and, drove down to
Newport and went to this conference.

I didn't know if I'd fit in or what.

And.

Their whole thing is
procession of the equinox.

It's a 24, 000 year cycle and
each of the astrological signs

have a 2, 000 year period.

And we just went into the age
of Aquarius I think, recently.

And, this is the the, when
things are, light is pouring back

into the into the earth plane.

And at 2012, so it's a continuous cycle
and all these different people, the Mayans

and the Hindus, they call them things
like Bakhtans, or they call them Yugas.

But for us, it's a, there's a
golden age and that's at the top

and for us that would be like Egypt.

That's the last of the golden age,
Egypt and the Mesoamerica cultures.

They were so far ahead.

They had all these, this knowledge
of energy and free energy and

anti gravity and invisibility.

They knew it all.

But you go from a golden age and then
it comes down through the dark ages

and all these times of war and stuff,
and then it goes silver, bronze,

and then it comes to an iron age.

And.

We just, 2012 was the bottom and we turned
the corner and it could, I could watch

the world just become all of a sudden in
2013, 2014, there was all these kids that

were showing up at this place, Pachamama.

They couldn't house them
all, hundreds of them.

And they said, I just
knew I had to come here.

And it was right on schedule,
right after December, 2012.

And light is coming back in to the world
and we will slowly climb up to a bronze

and a silver age and the next golden age.

And this cycle has gone on forever.

We have all these stories and all
this confidence that we know what

the history is of this place.

And I don't think we do.

I think civilizations have
risen and fallen for eternity.

And this place is kind of a stage.

Where what's really going on is as young
souls, we're learning how to become high

quality souls so that we can move on

and move out into the universe
and do the work of the universe.

So this is kind of a, we've
all heard this, it's a school.

Where we have the School of Hard Knocks,
where we go through experiences and at

some point we stop reacting to them with
anger and, resentment and shame and guilt,

all those things, we just say, I'm not
doing that anymore and that, that's when

we start getting ready to graduate and
we don't have to come back here, this

cycle of rebirth is broken and how's that?

Is that helpful?

Yeah, that's good.

It's something that I also want
to do some more research in, but I

think it was very interesting to me.

Did, my next question is, did you
bring any let me try that again.

A lot of NDE's bring back, it's like
something got cracked open in them.

And they have these new awarenesses,
new abilities, new powers.

Did you have anything like that?

Yeah I did.

I If somebody had low vibration
intentions like a business deal or,

somebody was doing something not
in the highest vibrational, vibe

Serving themself and not you.

That's,

Absolutely.

Thank you very much.

Yes.

Yeah, if it was a self serving,
if it was a selfish vibe,

it was really obvious to me.

And it wasn't somebody who was judging it.

It just, it's like, this is going to
go poorly, it'll play out over the next

few years, but this person's not up
to a high vibrational thing and that's

what this place is for, we come here.

To behave like that, and most
of us are going to, and until we

don't, and then we start leaving.

The other thing, I just came up kind
of accidentally in an interview, but

a few years after that, after my NDE,
I was running and biking and swimming

a lot, but I was all of a sudden I
was counting in groups of four, like a

musician, one and two and three and four
and two and it's going on for hours.

And I really didn't understand it, but
I bought some drums a few years later.

And my wife was really like,

what are you doing now?

And I said, I don't know.

I think this is pretty easy.

And I could, in a couple of months,
I could play pretty much any song.

And she's like, I can't, this is,
you haven't even had a lesson.

You haven't even watched a video.

I said, I don't know.

It just, it all seems to fit.

And what really fit was, the
structure of music and this whole

thing with math mathematics in our
world, you know, is fundamentally

mathematics and it feels good to us
when these things are all balanced,

in key and timing.

And so I got into a couple of
different bands and this one group

approached me and said, we want you.

And I was like, you don't understand.

I've been playing drums for just a few
years and I'm just this, guy in his

forties and I don't know what I'm doing.

And I remember this one guy used
to play with the beach boys.

And he toured with them and he
said, look, whatever it is that

a drummer needs, you have it.

And we don't know why, but you know how
to structure music, where the bridges

are, where the tempo changes, you just,
we don't get it either, but you have it.

And we went really far, I played the state
fair and, in the green room and my wife's

looking at me going, how did you do this?

I mean, I can trace it back to that,
because I didn't have it prior to the

NDE, and I remember seeing all those
formulas and stuff just powering in,

and, then it was gradual, but, and it
was genuine, I wasn't, I was just letting

it happen, and all of a sudden, all of
this counting, and all of this You know,

groups of four, you know four beats to a
measure, four measures to a bar, it's like

a mathematical formula for me, that's how
I could see it and yeah, it's been great.

We had a reunion here last
year and we all played and

Awesome.

I don't know,

How long was the band together for?

Or how long did you play in a band?

I played in bands about 12 years and this.

I have this thing, this Kundalini thing.

And when that starts rising you get, it's
a really different, big conversation.

But to be around alcohol, like
we play wineries and breweries

and, just drunken people, yelling
out songs and stuff like that.

The whole thing with alcohol is
something that diminishes our vibration.

It's a central nervous system depressant.

And our whole experience here
in this earth realm is it's

the central nervous system.

It's the, our eyes and our
ears and what we're feeling.

That's what we're processing.

And when, if you're drinking a lot,
a heavy drinker or whatever your

system's depressed all the time.

And so the input is, it's always
a low story, low vibration story.

And I could really feel that.

I could really feel when I was around
addicts and people who were, alcohol

was a big part of their day and, I'd
rather be around my dogs and, the deer

that live here and that kind of thing

Yeah, that, that makes sense.

Did you did you get to live on the island?

did not, yeah, I, I took a fire job
and then we moved I think it was

Sequoia and it was on an engine.

It was a great summer, but nope, she
didn't get her, she didn't get the island.

And I really do wish I could
go back and change that.

Cause that would have been,
this is a guy that's almost 70.

Then I was 24, you want to sit
on an island, stare out to sea.

That wasn't my idea of an
exciting time, but now it is.

Well you look like you've still got
at least another 20, 30 years Bill, I

reckon there's a good chance that your
wife still won't get her wish yet.

So the wispy guy, the Gandalf kind
of guy, the whirlpool that you met.

My first impression when you
were telling me that story was...

That's you, Bill.

Like, that's your higher self there,
telling you, you gotta get back.

So it wasn't anybody else, but
you telling you what to do.

What do you think about that idea?

Thank you.

I think you're spot on, bro.

Because he just loved me and he was I
just entertained the hell out of him.

Like, like a kid, like having a
kid, like having a toddler and.

I think we have thousands of lives here
on the earth plane, and there's this

talk about time that it doesn't really
exist, so they're all occurring at the

same time, this gets into things we
really can't process but yeah, I'm one of

thousands, like a, an army of experiencers
for this higher version of me,

An evolving super being.

And we, it's not just me, we're
all the same and we have all

of us, we have thousands of
souls watching us all the time.

That's just not an old guy making
something up because as I move on,

I, if I look in the blue sky, it
looks like I'm looking at it under a

microscope at like a drop of ocean water.

It's just full of life forms darting
here and there orbs and that's we, we

live in a highly energetic environment
and we don't know it our senses are

choked down to where we've got this
really narrow range of what we can

hear and see and and experience,

It is an amazing, unlimited

yeah, the default setting is for
a very narrow band, isn't it?

And then yours has been expanded a
little bit, so it sounds like you've

got still a bit of one foot in, in
a higher realm, and then you've got

the rest of you is here, but not the
same as what it was before you left.

Oh, no, it's when the Kundalini
energy moves most, I mean, a lot of

people have this moving on them, but
We're so disconnected from what we

really are that we don't know how
to encourage it or to work with it.

And there's a whole story
there, but I lucked out.

I was at this place called Pachamama and I
was going through this silent retreat and

we had to write something every day to the
spiritual guy that Chief of the village.

I guess the things I was writing, he
came to me and he didn't talk to anybody.

We didn't speak, but we'd meet every
day in this giant meditation hall.

And then he would have things to say.

And he singled me out and he said,
you need to familiarize yourself with

Kundalini and with pranic energy, because
the things you're writing to me, this is

obviously a Kundalini rising and it's,
it's very powerful and it's on its way.

And I listened to him, when I got
back to the States, I found this

Kundalini yoga instructor and
it took eight months, a year of

going once a week and they go
through the exercises and stuff.

I figured out what it was.

I didn't have any idea.

I just thought, well, this is a cool
sounding name, and I realized by just

paying attention and figuring out what
she was trying to, demonstrate for me

or show me that this is a real thing.

And you mentioned that I'm
this kind of joyful, happy guy.

And that's part of it, that, that
energy, we all have this drop of

God energy, this drop of light
in our, the bottom of our spine.

And when it wakes up, it takes years
and it moves up the spine and it pushes

all the energy, the dark energy that we.

accumulate emotional drama.

That's what the universe is.

It's all emotions, feelings, and
it clears out all of those things.

And then there'll be a time when it
reunites with divine and you have

this light just come through you.

And it's really powerful.

You absolutely realize something
ridiculous is happening and and

once that connection starts up,
then it slowly is opening up.

We talked about it earlier.

It's this energy is slowly moving
through you and opening up your

central nervous system so that you can
receive more and develop more, I guess.

But yeah I'm I'm getting pretty happy.

It's really obvious that it's, at
some point I'm going to be a little

too happy, and then they this, we
have facilities in this country full

of people who are misdiagnosed and
they really are having a spiritual

awakening, a Kundalini awakening.

So in this country we had this the
thing called the Good Humor and it

was ice cream company and so the joke
was that the Good Humor truck is going

to come and take that fellow to the
funny farm and all these references to.

This joyful presentation
and that's what's going on.

And, that goes back to when we first
started talking and I said that everyone

I ran into on the other side was giggling
or chuckling or, and I felt like I was,

all my cells were being tickled and yeah.

We don't have anything to worry about.

The universe is an awesome place.

It's got a sense of humor as well.

So I'd love to hear more about
the Kundalini thing, but I know

we're getting on with time.

So perhaps if you do come back for one
of our live streams and you might want to

talk about that cause I would certainly
like to learn more about that myself.

All right, Bill.

So, tell us what you got going on.

If somebody wants to get in touch with
you, do you have any books or programs or

anything like that you want to talk about?

Well, no, I don't have the book, but I'm
promising people that I will finish it.

I've got this overly joyful
lifestyle and I gotta get, I

got to sit down and finish it.

And there's another video that
I guess that one video that Alan

Chapman made was I mean, he just
did a phenomenal job editing that.

And.

His production, I'm, as you can tell,
I'm not that good of a speaker, but he,

his editing just made it wonderful for
people to hear these, this crazy tale.

Yeah, I liked his, I liked
the way he does things.

It's really good.

And you can tell he's been
doing it for a long time.

There's a lot of mastery there.

All right, cool.

So have you got anything final
that you want to leave people

with before we wrap it up?

Yeah.

You and I talked about the, actually you
brought it up and I love that because

I bring it up and I feel like I'm.

Crossing the line or something,
but we talked about that there are

messages in movies and, the Matrix
and Star Wars and that there's this

Star Wars and Star Trek, that there's
infinite life forms out there.

If you can imagine it, it exists.

I grew up in the 60s and 70s and
every year we, they played this.

movie on Sunday night.

It was called once a year, it's
called Wizard of Oz, The Wizard of Oz.

And so, we're talking about near death
experiences and that movie is Dorothy,

she goes in that farmhouse and it
gets caught in that cyclone vortex and

window comes off and hits her in the
head and she peels away from her body.

It's a near death experience.

And then she lands in a place.

And she goes from a black and white
drab lifestyle into this incredibly

beautiful environment with these
giant flowers and colors everywhere.

And then she meets these little,
four foot high, little giggling

munchkins, these people.

And they come at her in groups of
three, the lollipop guys and the...

The dancers and the politicians, they
all come forward in groups of three.

And they're very playful.

And and then Glinda shows up and she
comes in as this beautiful purple gold

orb, and she's this, the good witch.

And she sets her up, sends her on her way.

And whenever Dorothy has a problem,

Glinda's right there to help her out.

It's, this higher self thing
you and I talked about.

And Dorothy meets a scarecrow looking
for a heart, or looking for a brain,

and a tin man looking for a heart, and
and a cowardly lion looking for courage.

And so, what I take from all that
is, we're here in this world, and

we get control of our thoughts.

Get control of our brain and use that
to live by the intelligence of the

heart of sweetness and kindness and
compassion and to move through this

life and out of this life without fear,
with courage, then we get to go home.

And that is absolutely
what that story is about.

That's a great message.

That's going to make me look at that
movie totally differently from now on.

My wife has watched it probably a
hundred times and she's obsessed by it.

Excellent.

All right, Bill, it's
been it's been a blast.

Thank you so much for coming
on the show and thank you for

Thank you, Rod.

Thank you.

I was greatly honored.