UC5: I Saw the Life I'd Never Live When I Died From a Heroin Overdose
Branden Densmore: And
just the anxiety and the,
pacing back and forth, not
comfortable in my own skin.
Finally the guy shows up
and I'm just so happy and
relieved that he's there.
And then he leaves
Rod Bland: Um,
My guest today is
Brandon Densmore.
Thanks for coming on
the show, Brandon.
It's great to have you here.
Branden Densmore:
Yes, my pleasure.
Rod Bland: I definitely will
want to get into your near
death experience for sure.
Cause I, I think it sounds
fascinating to me, but I would
like to get an understanding
of a little bit about your
background and what your
life was like before that
occurred, just to give us
some context for how you
ended up where you were.
Branden Densmore: Okay.
Let's see.
I had a pretty, pretty rough
life, I guess you could say.
I was sexually molested
when I was eight years old,
and that hurt quite a bit.
Affected my self-esteem,
my, my self-image
confidence and created
a lot of harsh feelings.
So anyways, that happened
when I was eight and at
age 14 I was diagnosed
with Crohn's disease, and
sacroiliac spondylitis.
So I was in
Rod Bland: Can you
explain what they are?
Crohn's disease?
I've heard of them before,
but I'm just not sure
what they are, and other
people are watching,
might not know either.
Branden Densmore: Sure.
So Crohn's disease is
arthritis of the intestine.
Rod Bland: Oh.
Branden Densmore: Is the
easy way to explain it.
And then sacroiliac
spondylitis is
arthritis of the spine.
Rod Bland: Right.
Branden Densmore: So obviously
like it caused a lot of pain.
And I was put on opiate
medications when I was 14
to help cope with the pain.
And ended up getting dependent
on those medications.
Dropped out in the
ninth grade from school.
. and,
Rod Bland: So you would
have been around 14, 15
at that time as well.
Branden Densmore:
Geez 15, 15 16,
Rod Bland: Okay.
Branden Densmore:
around that age.
I hated school.
Like the whole, the pressure
to fit in, to conform and
I was bullied horrendously.
I was raised in an alternate
religion, so the practices
in that religion made me
stand out as different.
So I guess maybe that
made me an easy target, or
maybe it was my self-esteem
issues from when I was
sexually molested that
weren't resolved, that kind
of opened me up to attack.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Did you have many friends
at school or any close
friends at school?
Branden Densmore: I made
some friends, but I hung
out with the wrong crowd,
I desperately wanted
acceptance, desperately wanted
friends, people to like me
people to share my life
with, and wasn't accepted by
the normal crowd cuz I was
so different but ended up
hanging out with the wrong
crowd, which kind of got me
into more trouble, but yeah.
Rod Bland: We got to the
part where you're talking
about your time at school
and I distracted you then,
but I can relate because I
know what it feels like to be
someone who's
seen as different.
I, where I grew up I grew
up right in the middle of
the bush, in the middle of
nowhere in Western Australia.
Not that that was
unusual in the country.
But I was just an unusual
kid I think smarter than
a lot of people were.
And the same just desperately
wanted to be friends with
people and often accepted
being treated in a way
that was, not great.
Just so that I could
feel like I had people at
least a little bit close.
Branden Densmore:
Yeah, it is tough.
So started hanging out
with the wrong crowd.
I hated school.
Didn't really care for the
teachers, felt I didn't
think I was gonna use the
information I was learning
and rebelled against it.
Dropped out in the ninth
grade and then worked
a couple dead end jobs.
Again, dependent on that
medication and ended up
having my first NDE at age 21.
Rod Bland: Okay.
21.
Branden Densmore: Yep.
Rod Bland: Alright so this is
between, so between 14 and 21.
So that was, you dropped
outta school and you just
had a variety of jobs.
And then we've
got our first NDE.
So yeah, tell us about that.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Had my first NDE at age
21, I was in a fistfight.
And the guy ended up being a
third degree black belt, which
I didn't know at the time.
Rod Bland: Whoa,
Branden Densmore: So
anyways, he, we were in a
fist fight and he kicked
me in the head three times
with steel-toed boots on.
And I went to the doctor the
next day and he said that
if there had been three more
pounds of pressure behind
that final kick, that his boot
would've gone into my brain.
So that NDE, what happened was
it was just a total blackout.
Just complete absence of
anything and everything.
Just total blackness.
Rod Bland: So you were still,
you were conscious, but there
was no input rather than you
being unconscious is that
Branden Densmore:
what you mean?
Yeah.
And no time.
Like it was just nothing.
And it's hard to describe
because how often do we
really experience nothing?
But there, there was
an observer, right?
How else can we even describe
nothingness if we're not
there to experience it?
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Yeah.
There has to be an observer.
That's what you meant.
Okay.
I thought for a moment you
felt like there was a person,
something observing you,
but you were the observer.
Branden Densmore: Yep.
Nothing.
Nothing.
But the thing that happened
after that was that, I
had believed I was stupid.
Going back to like when I
was sexually molested I had
developed self-confidence,
self-esteem issues.
And then in school, I dropped
out in the ninth grade.
I was made fun of
by kids in school.
And somewhere along
the line I adopted this
belief that I was stupid.
Like I wasn't gonna
go anywhere in life.
I wasn't intelligent,
I was no good, right?
So when I was in that
fist fight, I started
asking questions like what
am I passionate about?
Why am I even here?
And what ended up
happening was I went back
to school to get a GED.
It's a general equivalent
equivalency to like a
high school diploma.
Rod Bland: Ok got ya..
We call it our high
school certificate.
Yep.
Branden Densmore: And when
I went back, I discovered
that I had a passion, like
a deep passion for learning.
Like I just, I loved
learning new things and
just the thrill of it,
the feeling of it, of
coming to a discovery,
like I just loved that.
I went back, got my GED
directly after this thing.
I started reading everything I
could about self-development,
spirituality, that
kind of thing.
Rod Bland: So did you read
much while you were in school?
Or this is something that
came, after you did your GED
you suddenly decided, okay,
I'm gonna read as much as I
possibly can about everything.
Branden Densmore: Yeah,
I just started, looking
into stuff listening to
audio books and it just,
every book that I would
listen to and every book
that I would read, it was
like, I wanted more and
wow, I really enjoy this.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
It opens up a
world, doesn't it?
Branden Densmore: It does.
Rod Bland: I can
relate around 19, 20.
It's once you start reading
books about self-development,
because you don't normally
get taught this at school.
It's not part of this
any school curriculum
that I'm aware of.
Branden Densmore: Yeah, that's
Rod Bland: yeah, it suddenly
you realize there's a lot
more to life than what
you realize that there was
and you just want more.
Branden Densmore: You Yeah,
I believed I was stupid and
and went back, got my GED
then went to and enrolled
in a community college and
Rod Bland: So this was,
how long did it take
you to do your g e d?
Was that A couple
of years to do that.
Branden Densmore: oh, it
was a few months really,
I think maybe six months,
Rod Bland: Yep.
Yep.
Branden Densmore: I needed
to go back and study up on
all the material geometry,
algebra, all that good stuff.
Went back.
Did that enrolled into a
two year college, finished
that and then wanted more.
So I ended up applying
to this summer program
called Exploring Transfer.
So it's a program that the
community colleges here in
the States, they have this
program called Exploring
Transfer, and they'll take a
community college student and
send them to Vasser College.
So that's Yale's
sister school,
Rod Bland: Yep
I've heard of that.
And I don't live there.
Yep.
Branden Densmore: yes.
Yeah, it's quite famous.
And ended up going there
for a summer, six weeks
and took two full courses
over a six week period
and then got a 4.0, a
perfect grade point average
an A in both classes.
Rod Bland: Okay.
Branden Densmore: Not
bad for a high school
dropout who's stupid.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Must have spurred you on.
Branden Densmore: it did.
And so I got this, got a 4.0
and then applied to Vassar to
become a full-time student.
It was my second choice
next to Harvard, but Harvard
wouldn't accept my application
because I had a GED.
They require a high
school diploma.
Rod Bland: Wow.
Okay.
Branden Densmore: So went
to Vassar for four years
and got a bachelor's
degree in philosophy.
And but what people
didn't know is that this
whole time I was still
dependent on these opiates.
Rod Bland: Was it the
dependency, did you still
have pain to deal with the the
Crohn's disease, et cetera?
Is that the reason why?
Branden Densmore: Yeah, on
and off it would come and go.
I would have a flare and
then be in really bad
pain, but also, I was
taking this medication
to cope with my feelings
because I still had, after
that first near-death
experience and over this time
period of this educational
journey, I still had
these self-esteem issues
Rod Bland: yeah.
Branden Densmore: going
back to childhood.
But I would
Rod Bland: that a
Branden Densmore: these
opiates and it would dull
those, the inner dialogue
telling myself that I'm
no good stuff like that.
Rod Bland: So it wasn't
just about the physical pain,
it was gave you some relief
from that emotional turmoil
that you're putting yourself
through whenever you start
getting down on yourself.
It just gave you
relief from that.
Branden Densmore: Exactly
made me feel like I could
concentrate on my work.
Like I could deal better
in social situations,
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: Made me
feel calm, made me feel good,
Rod Bland: So it sounds
like you were you, despite
being addicted, uh, you
were high functioning
at that point in time.
Branden Densmore: I was, yeah.
Had to be, there
Vasser wasn't easy.
I had to read a stack
of books like this,
write paper after paper.
The whole time that I
was on this educational
journey, no one really knew.
I hid it pretty well
that I was dependent
on these opiates.
Rod Bland: Not even close
friends or family knew.
Branden Densmore: Family
knew but there wasn't much
they could do about it.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Did they try to intervene?
Branden Densmore: They tried
to, but there wasn't much
they could do about it,
I had a legitimate reason
Rod Bland: yeah.
Branden Densmore: I could
just go to a doctor and they
would write a prescription.
It was tough.
And
I would take too much
of the medication, more
than prescribed, and
then I would run out,
And it was just a vicious
cycle of, Up and down.
I'd run out of
this medication.
My anxiety would just go
through the roof and the
thoughts would come back.
Rod Bland: So you finish
your course at Vasser.
The addiction is an issue,
but you felt like you had
a handle on it at the time.
There was starting to be
these sort of bad periods
and not so bad periods
that were starting.
The gap was starting to
widen because you're running
out of your prescription
medication and I imagine
that you are putting
pressure on your caregivers
to get more and they're
not letting that happen.
So that creates
stress and, yeah.
So what came next?
Branden Densmore:
Yeah, exactly.
And then after graduating from
Vasser, I am back in Maine,
which is where I live, and
I'm in my mom's apartment
and I've used too much of my
medication and I've been in
withdrawals for three days.
Rod Bland: Oh, I hear that's
a seriously painful thing.
Branden Densmore: It's
like living hell basically.
My inner dialogue was so
negative and all of the
problems of my life were
just shouting at the top
of their lungs in my mind.
The anxiety, like I said, is,
was just through the roof.
Like it's, and I'm in
my mom's apartment.
I'm waiting for this,
for the guy to show up.
At Vassar, by the way, I
didn't mention this, but I
was introduced to heroin.
Rod Bland: Okay.
As an alternative when
you couldn't get your
prescription medication.
Branden Densmore: Exactly.
I was at a party one night
in withdrawals cause I had
run out of the medication
and they were do just
doing this stuff.
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: I
decided, hey, I'll try it.
So I knew about it and
Rod Bland: So
Branden Densmore:
came back home,
Rod Bland: to you're taking
more risks at that point cuz
you, I guess you, you knew
that there's a chance that
what you're actually about to
take isn't what you think it
is because of the fact that
it's, the source is not from
a pharmaceutical company.
I guess that was in
the back of your mind?
Or is it just a case
of, okay, I need to do
something about this now?
Branden Densmore: yeah, it
wasn't really in my mind.
Rod Bland: Yeah
Branden Densmore: it was
more almost I've read
about it now and it's
the survival mechanism
Rod Bland: yeah.
Branden Densmore:
like you with this.
Addiction or dependency,
whatever you want to call it.
It's like it hits
the limbic system.
So it's like your brain
thinks that you need
this thing like oxygen,
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: I
need this to survive.
I can't continue
without this thing.
It's pretty bad.
It's pretty powerful.
So I'm in my mom's apartment,
I'm in withdrawals.
I've been in withdrawals
for three days and I'm
waiting for my guy to show
up, to bring me some stuff
so I don't have to be
suffering like that anymore.
Rod Bland: Yep,
Branden Densmore: And I'm
checking the clock, is
this guy ever gonna come?
And just the anxiety and the,
pacing back and forth, not
comfortable in my own skin.
Finally the guy shows up
and I'm just so happy and
relieved that he's there.
And then he leaves and
I do some of the stuff.
And finally the
nightmare's over.
Finally my mind just
calms down and it's just
Rod Bland: got relief.
Branden Densmore: a sigh of
relief and it feels good.
And all of the negative
thoughts just dissipate.
Like smoke, just like
steam coming, rolling off
a warm lake just gone.
And then I feel good and
then all of a sudden I
realize that I'm dying.
So I ended up overdosing
Rod Bland: When you say
you realized that you were
dying, what was happening?
If something was happening
physically at that point?
Branden Densmore: yeah, I
was like lying on the couch
in my mom's apartment.
And My breathing started
to get real slow and then
everything started really
quieting quieting down.
It was like I was just
sinking and then my
breathing was slow and I'm
like, this isn't right.
And then I'm out of my body,
like standing next to myself.
Rod Bland: so standing
like in the apartment,
looking at your body,
laying on the couch.
Branden Densmore: Yep.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Yep.
Branden Densmore: Standing
right there looking at
myself, laying on the couch.
And then I was contemplating.
And oddly enough, I
didn't find it strange.
It wasn't weird.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
You weren't anxious or
anything like that, you
thought, oh, I'm just, I'm
here looking at myself.
Did you think to yourself,
oh I've just died.
That's why I'm here?
Or is it prep?
Yeah.
Branden Densmore: Yep.
I somehow realized that
I had died and the weird
thing it was, is that it
wasn't strange, which I
don't know why it wouldn't
be cuz you would think
that it would be weird.
Rod Bland: So it felt,
when you say it wasn't
strange, like it just
felt you felt comfortable.
Branden Densmore:
Felt comfortable.
Yep.
Felt comfortable.
It wasn't like odd,
like an unusual event.
For some reason that
kind of thinking
never crossed my mind.
Was just standing there
looking at my dead body
and contemplating the
meaning of my life.
Rod Bland: As you would
when you just, when
this just occurred,
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Rod Bland: What was
going through your mind
as you were contemplating
the many of your life?
Branden Densmore: oh, I was
like, What was the point?
What was the point of it all?
I was raised in an
alternative religion, you
know, sexually molested
when I was eight years old.
Made fun of when I was a
kid, dropped outta school,
went back to school, went
on this amazing educational
journey, discovered a passion
for learning, overcame the
belief that I was stupid, but
what was the point of it all?
That's what I
Rod Bland: You were kicking
some goals at this point,
and now it was like it was
almost all for nothing.
Branden Densmore: Exactly.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: And I
was baffled, wasn't there
something supposed to be
something more to life?
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: And then,
Rod Bland: there looking
at the couch contemplating.
The worth of your life.
And what happened next?
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
And I became aware
of a presence.
There was a presence
in the room,
I didn't feel uncomfortable.
But it wasn't like I
had some kind of like
profound peace or anything.
It was just, I was standing
there contemplating the
meaning of my life, and
was baffled and confused
and didn't see the point.
And all of a sudden I just,
I sense that something's
in the room with me.
You, you know how like
sometimes you can feel
somebody watching you,
Rod Bland: Yeah,
Branden Densmore: like
you just feel the eyes
like watching you even if
you don't see somebody.
But anyways, that's
what it felt like.
I looked around.
There was nothing there, but I
definitely felt the presence.
And that's when I entered what
you might call a holodeck.
I like to think of
it as a holodeck.
Rod Bland: so the
apartment disappeared.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
It disappeared.
And I was shown
Rod Bland: So it was just
like a, just a quick there.
Was there one second
in, in the holodeck?
The
next, yeah.
Branden Densmore:
just boom gone.
I was shown two things, like
I was shown a future reality.
Where I didn't exist.
So you could think of it
as, was I shown the future?
I don't know.
It might have been.
Or was it a simulation
A possible future?
I don't know.
Because this brings up
questions of causality
and, do we have free
will and all this stuff.
Those are some deep questions,
but I was shown a future
reality where I didn't exist.
So you could say I
was shown the future.
So I was shown all the
people that I would never
meet, the experiences
I would never have.
The woman that I
would never marry,
and it was like I would see
a, like me, like a movie,
watching a movie of myself
Having all of
these experiences.
But it was like after each
one it's like, okay that's
never, that will never happen.
Rod Bland: Right.
Branden Densmore: Now
shown another one that
will never happen, shown
another one that will never
happen, shown another one
that will never happen
over and over and
over and over again.
And then the other thing
I was shown was all of
the people that were
affected by my death.
All of the friends
in the family and
the memorial service.
Rod Bland: That's heavy.
Branden Densmore: It is.
And the one that really stands
out from that part was that
my mother coming into her
apartment and discovering
my dead body on her couch,
and there was like puss
running outta my mouth.
And I remember her saying,
my baby, my baby, no God no.
Screaming, screaming.
And that's when it, that's
when it really hit me.
And it was like a
kick in the stomach.
And I started begging.
Send me back.
I'll do whatever I have to do
to overcome this addiction.
Whatever's required
of me, I will do it.
Rod Bland: So there was a
steely resolve at that point.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Because I couldn't let my
mother experience that pain
of finding her baby dead.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
It almost seems like that,
that people often have
a, an experience that's
for them when they have
a near death experience.
And that was the one that
was tailored for you to
make the biggest impact
by the sounds of it.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
And I've told this story
a few times and sometimes
in the comments people
talk about how could God,
I don't know if this
was God, this present.
But the okay, I left a part
out, so I heard a voice.
So after seeing my mother
finding my dead body, I
heard a voice and it was a
very matter of fact voice.
It wasn't a whisper, it
wasn't a loud, booming
thunderous voice.
It was just a very
matter of fact voice that
said, now your life is
over and you wasted it.
Rod Bland: Whoa.
Branden Densmore: That was
really what finished me off.
That was just like, I had
already been kicked in the
stomach with seeing my mother
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: and
then shown the future
that never would happen.
And then now your life is
over and you wasted it.
So I begged, send me back.
I'll do anything
that's required.
But people say in the
comments when I tell
this story, how could God
say something like that?
Or why would God say
something like that?
And I don't know if this
presence was God, Jesus
Buddha, who it was, it
never identified itself.
But how could a divine
being of this kind say
something like that?
Now your life is over
and you wasted it.
So I get comments talking
about that point and oh,
it was your higher self.
I don't know what it was,
but it, like you said, Rod,
it's like these experiences
are tailored to what
we need in that moment.
I believe that I
needed to hear that.
Rod Bland: You've constructed
your life up to that
point around an addiction.
And then from the outside,
you looked like you had it
all together, but at some
point it was gonna end,
gonna come to an end badly.
And you really needed a
message that was gonna
get through to you.
Anyway, sounds like it did.
So what happened next?
Branden Densmore:
it definitely did.
And I wanna say that it was
the love that really got me
to the point where I was like,
I will do anything to
Rod Bland: So you felt,
Branden Densmore: this
Rod Bland: is you felt this
love from the presence or the
voice is that what you mean?
Branden Densmore: No, it
was the love of my mother,
Rod Bland: Ah,
Branden Densmore: the
appreciation for her
raising me, the love
that she showed me.
And here I was doing
this heroin and I died
and she found my body.
That the love and the
respect that I had
spurred on the change.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: Willingness
to do whatever it takes.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
You had to honor that.
couldn't not
honor that at that
point.
Mm-hmm.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
So anyways, after that
experience, right after
that I called Crisis.
Rod Bland: So back
up a little bit.
So you said, okay, I want
to go back and I guess
you did and you bump back
in your body and your
Branden Densmore: do whatever
it takes, send me back.
Please, God.
Just send me back.
I want to live.
I'll do whatever it takes
to not make this happen.
And all of a sudden,
boom, I'm back in my body.
Gasping for breath.
Rod Bland: Do you have any
idea for how long that was?
Branden Densmore: No.
But after the experience,
I called Crisis and went
into a seven day detox
where I had to learn how
to tie my shoelaces again
Rod Bland: man?
Branden Densmore: cuz the
drug was not in my system.
And that's how dependent
I was on this medication.
I think I was 32 when this
happened, and I'm 40 now.
But I had been on this opiate
medication since age 15,
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Yeah.
So getting on 16, 17 years.
Branden Densmore: so it was,
my brain was just totally
wrapped up in this thing.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
So your brain's ability to
produce those same chemicals,
dopamine, et cetera, was,
pretty much nonexistent.
So you, oh I can't even begin
to imagine what that must have
been like to go, okay, we're
just cold Turkey and h how
do you, how did they treat
you for that how did that
occur that seven day period?
Branden Densmore: They they
gave me some some medication,
for an anti-inflammatory
a sleeping pill.
And I remember, I'm
not a doctor, so this
is not medical advice,
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore:
I do talk about it.
They offered me a
medication called suboxone.
They call it an opiate
replacement therapy.
And from what I understand,
this helps a lot of people.
A lot of people who are
addicted to heroin and
other opiate substances,
they prescribe this to them
so that they can get off
these other street drugs
and other pharmaceuticals.
But anyways I was in
the midst of the worst
part of the withdrawal
and the psychiatrist
offered me Suboxone.
And I said, I
knew what it was.
It's actually an opiate.
An opioid.
It's a synthetic.
But anyways I said, no.
He
Rod Bland: That
must have been hard.
Branden Densmore: that.
It was a debate in my
mind, do I take it?
Do I not take it?
Do I take it?
Do I not take it?
And I said, no, cuz I,
I wanted it to be free.
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: And didn't
wanna feed the dependency
or become dependent on this
opiate replacement therapy.
He said, you need to
reconsider Brandon.
You need to reconsider that.
Rod Bland: He didn't want
you to fail based on the odds
that he'd seen for people that
had not taken the alternative.
Yeah,
Branden Densmore:
Yes, exactly.
Rod.
He didn't want me to fall
into the statistic, so he
said, you need to reconsider.
Do you realize that
I think he said 95%.
It might have been a higher
percentage, but 95% of
people in your situation will
go back to the substance.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
So you're really
against the odds.
Branden Densmore: And I said,
I guess I'm one of the 5%.
No,
Rod Bland: were confident
at that point there.
There was a moment, but
you were really confident
you were just gonna
have to do it that way,
whatever it was gonna take.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Yeah.
And it goes back to like when
I was pleading on the other
side to live, send me back,
I'll do whatever it takes.
Like I couldn't accept
the drug because I knew
where it was gonna lead.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: that's
for me, like I'm not telling
other people that's right
for them necessarily,
although it may be.
But that would be something
to seriously consider.
Cuz I know people who are
dependent on these opiate
replacement therapies.
And I'm glad from my personal
life, my personal experience,
my personal life that I said
no, cuz I'm now I'm free.
Rod Bland: So it was just you
were in rehab for that seven
day period and then they kind
of let you loose after that.
What happened after that?
Branden Densmore: Yeah, they
cut me loose after that.
And then I went to an
intensive outpatient
program that's
something that you just go
to weekly as part of a group
talking about addiction
and how to recover and
different things like that.
I learned some good
stuff there, but where I
really got some relief.
Because after coming off
this medication, I was still
full of like resentment to
people in the past, including
the guy who molested me,
Rod Bland: So the physical
withdrawal was one thing,
the mental side of things
was something else.
Yeah.
Branden Densmore: yeah.
And almost worse, really
the mental emotional piece
was worse than the physical.
And even after, the drug
was gone out of my system,
that emotional, mental
aspect was just raw.
Full of resentments from the
kids at school, from the guy
who molested me toward the
religion that I was raised in.
All of these different
aspects of resentment
and fear and negative
thinking about myself, am
I good enough comparing
myself to other people?
All this stuff.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
You had plenty of reasons
to be bitter at the world.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Yeah,
Rod Bland: of good reasons.
Yeah.
Branden Densmore:
Bitter and afraid.
Rod Bland: But you knew
that was getting in the
way of you being, fulfilled
in your life and you had
to do something about it.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
At that point I was not happy.
Like I was miserable and I
knew that I needed to find
a way to deal with this,
cuz if I didn't, I was gonna
probably end up going back out
and using the substance again.
I had a gaping void in my life
and I needed to find a way to
fill it and to deal with all
of these emotions and inner
turmoil that was going on.
And that's when I started
going to Alcoholics
Anonymous meetings.
Rod Bland: Okay.
Branden Densmore: My drug
of choice wasn't really
alcohol, but I lied.
I, and I said that I
had an alcohol problem
Rod Bland: Did
you have an idea
That, did you learn
about the framework?
That's like with the 12 steps
you thought That's what I need
and so I need to get in there?
Branden Densmore: No I started
going and what happened
was, I needed a support
group, people to talk to.
That's why I originally went.
And I knew that I had all
these emotional problems
and self-esteem issues,
et cetera, and I needed
people to talk to about it.
So anyways, I started
going to these meetings.
And I saw that, wow, there are
people here with incredible
substance abuse stories with
alcohol, and they're laughing.
They're happy.
They've made friends,
they're talking with each
other, they're laid back,
they're comfortable.
So that's when I
realized, okay, there's
something going on here.
It was evidence to me that
there was a solution to the
inner turmoil and stuff that
I had going on the inside.
Rod Bland: Yeah,
this kind of clicked.
Branden Densmore: It
clicked and I had found
a sponsor and then worked
through the 12 steps.
So it was a gradual process.
But let's see.
So when I had that overdose
experience I had no friends,
false friends, people who
were there just to take
advantage of me in my life.
I went from no friends
no money in the bank,
brokenhearted, no
self-confidence, full
of resentment, fear
Rod Bland: pretty crappy
life at that point.
Branden Densmore: yeah,
I was low down, like low
in life and no vehicle.
To now I'm married to a
wonderful, beautiful woman.
I had a son.
Who's eight months
old, who I love dearly.
I have money in the bank.
I started a business.
I bought a car,
I bought a house.
I have a beautiful garden.
I'm full of confidence,
self-esteem.
I love my life.
I have real friends, and
I'm living the kind of a
reality that I was shown.
Now, whether or not that was
that future reality where I
didn't exist was the actual
future, or not, I can't say,
Rod Bland: Yeah,
Branden Densmore:
but I'm living.
Living like I feel like I
was supposed to live, the
life that God intended.
Rod Bland: sorry,
Brandon, to interrupt you.
What strikes me is that
there's this resolve about
you and this there's some
confidence that I can't
quite put my finger on,
but it's almost because you
had those previous experiences
that the person that you
are now has so much more
vigor and it's almost like
a ruthlessness for life, and
it just comes out of you.
You think that is,
is that how you feel?
Branden Densmore: That's an
awesome way of describing it.
Like a ruthlessness for life.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
It
Rod Bland: Like you're not
gonna waste another second.
Branden Densmore:
Exactly, yeah.
When I was talking with my
sponsor and going through the
12 steps there was a point
where, I didn't want to be
in any other relationship.
Like a romantic relationship
because I had so
many failed romantic
relationships from the past
and a lot of resentment
toward ex-girlfriends.
And I told my sponsor,
I don't want to get into
another relationship cuz
I'm afraid of being hurt.
He said, that's
no way to live.
You, you don't want to be in a
romantic relationship because
you're afraid of being hurt.
That's no way to live.
Rod Bland: That's
a bit of tough love
right there, isn't it?
Branden Densmore: it is like
it to, you need to be willing
to be hurt, to open up your
heart, be willing to be hurt,
to experience the
fullness of life
instead of living afraid and
trying to protect, to live
in a little box and protect
myself from the world.
But to have the fullness
the full experience of
what life has to offer.
Rod Bland: So how did you,
I dunno whether overcome is
the right word, but there's
the bitterness and the
resentments for people that
have wronged you in your life.
And like I said, you had
plenty of reasons to do that.
How did you get to the
point where you go, okay,
did you just realize that
was poisoning your life
and you had to let them go?
Is that what you got to?
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
I realized that that these
underlying things were
really the cause, the
root of the addiction.
Because I would take
these medications in order
to numb the feelings.
And to obliterate the thinking
that was happening in my mind
around some of these issues.
So I needed to, I needed
a solution to addiction,
a solution where I no longer
had to have this as a problem
where I could move on with
my life and live a full
life experiencing everything
that life had to offer.
But my life was
on the line too.
For me, it was a matter
of life and death.
So I desperately
needed a solution.
I found the right sponsor,
someone who really knew their
stuff, someone who really knew
the material and the method
from Alcoholics Anonymous,
which I mean, alcoholics
Anonymous, it saved my life.
Not to say that this
organization doesn't
have its problems.
Not to say that the philosophy
doesn't have issues of
Alcoholics Anonymous, but
it did save my life cuz it
gave me that, it gave me
what I needed in the moment
and it gave me a process
that I could use to really
face these inner demons that
were driving the addiction.
Rod Bland: So how did
you actually integrate
some of those, those
terrible experiences?
I'm sure there's something
where people are wondering,
who have been through a
similar experience to go I
can't possibly forgive that
person for what they did.
How did you manage to
integrate that into your life
where you got to the point
where it's not something
that's a problem for you?
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
So I was coaching somebody
about this the other day.
And forgiveness doesn't
mean that you're opening
yourself up to being abused.
Like this idea of turn the
other cheek so that the,
when Jesus said that, it was
like you get slapped and then
you turn the other cheek and
it's a, like biblical saying.
So in other words,
slap me again.
But that's not what
forgiveness is.
So if, yeah, if you're
being abused, you don't
wanna allow yourself to
continue to be abused, right?
Oh I'm in an abusive
relationship and I'm
gonna forgive the person
that's abusing me.
And it just allow them
to continue abusing you.
That's not forgiveness.
So first you have to be
ready and willing and open.
I had to practice forgiveness
because my life was on the
line and I couldn't allow
myself to die and my mother
to find that dead body.
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: I
had, I was motivated.
I was motivated.
So I would say the
first thing, you
need to be motivated,
but I had turned into an
angry person and I didn't
want to live that way anymore.
On another show, I was talking
with someone and he's, we
were talking about road rage.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: So someone
would cut me off in traffic
and I'd get ripped oh, that,
what is this guy thinking?
Uh, Da.
Flip them the finger.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
That was your standard
operating procedure.
Branden Densmore: right?
But anger had become a
lifestyle just irritated
at little annoyances.
But what I didn't realize
is that I had become an
angry person, and that was a
lifestyle and that the anger
was coming out sideways.
It was being expressed toward
these little annoyances,
but those little annoyances
weren't really the problem.
Because I had anger
inside of me at a really
fundamental level.
Being sexually molested
at eight years old is
enough to make you angry.
But it was coming out in
my life in ways that I
didn't realize the root
cause and that I had become
an angry kind of person.
What I'm trying to
illustrate is the
importance of forgiveness,
Because if we hold onto
this kind of anger,
we've become angry people
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: and it
comes out in unexpected ways.
Rod Bland: Yeah, so it's
more, it's for you, the
forgiveness is for you so that
you don't have to be angry.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Rod Bland: Yeah,
Branden Densmore: And
I think it, it even
goes beyond that too.
Like it's for you so that
you can live a better life
Rod Bland: yeah.
Branden Densmore: so
that you can have better
emotions or more enjoyable,
Rod Bland: Better quality.
Branden Densmore: worse,
maybe that's the wrong
way to describe it, but a
more enjoyable experience.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
This is it's not anywhere
at the same level, but
it's a conversation.
I can remember having this
with my wife a while ago,
and talking about previous
partners and wrongs, that have
been done, and she couldn't
quite understand at the
time why I wasn't angrier.
And I had to think about
it and thought I just
don't like carrying
around that vibration.
You can't be angry at someone
and not be angry, it's like
you carry that with you.
I don't want that
to be in my life.
I don't want that to be part
of my interactions with you.
I don't want us to be part of
my interactions with my kids.
That's why I'm not angry.
It's not because I approve
of what has been done,
it's just I don't wanna
be that kind of person.
There's gotta be another
way to deal with it.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Say that last sentence again.
You said that you didn't want
it to affect your children.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
I didn't want that vibration.
Emotions are like
vibrations, right?
Everything's got energy.
So I think if I'm gonna be
angry about something, then
that's gonna impact not just,
I'm not just directing anger
at one particular person.
It's part of my being, right?
So it's gonna impact my
children, it's gonna impact my
other relationships as well.
Do I want that?
Branden Densmore: and it's
tough too, Rod, cuz like we're
not taught how to forgive.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: And when
you have like significant
traumatic experiences, it
makes it even more difficult.
So we're not only not
taught how to forgive or
what forgiveness even is.
When it's a traumatic
incidence, that makes even
the method more difficult,
like even harder to let go,
Rod Bland: Yep.
Yep.
Branden Densmore:
and then it becomes
internalized.
Rod Bland: the
Olympic system.
It's like that base, that very
lizard part of your brain, and
there's really no reasoning
or logic that you can apply
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Rod Bland: those
deep emotions.
Yeah.
Branden Densmore: But you
have to be ready to let it go.
And it doesn't mean that
you're condoning whatever
it is, the kind of
actions that have happened
Doesn't mean you're
condoning it.
But it can be a tough
pill to swallow.
When I was, so I was sexually
molested at eight years
old, and when I confronted
that particular resentment,
Toward this person.
I had a conversation with
my sponsor and it was step
four and five in Alcoholics
Anonymous, and I had already
gone through the previous
steps and I said a prayer.
But so I talked with my
sponsor and oh man, I have
a lot of different thoughts
coming that I want to express.
Rod Bland: go
Branden Densmore: One thing
I forgot to mention, you
were talking about how
forgiveness is for yourself
and it is, that's true.
But it's also for the world
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: you changed,
like you said, your vibration,
which has a ripple effect.
So when you're no
longer, an angry person,
Rod Bland: that's
what the world needs.
Branden Densmore: But,
so let's where was
I going before that?
I made that point?
Cause I really just,
I wanted to say that.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Yeah.
You were just talking
about forgiveness.
You're having the
conversation with your
sponsor, steps four and five.
Branden Densmore: Yes.
So thank you.
was having a conversation
with my sponsor and I told
him about the sexual abuse
and he said, okay, so
first of all, I'm really
sorry that happened to you.
I said, okay, thank you.
And he said, that should
never happen to a child.
And that's a really,
you know, terrible
thing to have to endure.
Okay, thank you for
recognizing that.
And then he said, but you've
been holding onto this.
You're an adult now.
And you've been holding
onto this for 20 years.
I said, yeah, I've been
holding onto it for 20
years and never resolved it.
And he said did you ever
consider that maybe he had
been sexually molested?
And I said, no, I never
thought about that.
He said usually when a kid
sexually molests another kid.
So this guy that
sexually molested me, I
believe he was 15, 16,
And I was eight.
He said, he must have
learned that from somewhere.
Most people learned that kind
of behavior from somewhere.
And I said I never
thought about that.
Here I was, addicted to,
to opiate medications.
I had died cuz I was full of
being driven by resentment,
fear, anger, et cetera.
Low self-esteem,
inner chatter.
I was being driven by
that and the addiction
was being fueled by that.
And I had died and it had been
20 years since this incident
happened and I had never
once considered that maybe he
had been sexually molested.
Not once in 20 years.
Okay.
Yeah, no, I've never
considered that.
Okay.
He said, don't you think
that's a little self-centered?
Rod Bland: Ooh.
Branden Densmore: I
was like self-centered.
I'm the one that was
sexually molested.
But I have realized
he had a point.
Because I was all wrapped
up in what happened to me,
what this person did to
me, how I feel about it.
I was hurt, I was victimized.
And what did that lead to?
That led to my
opiate addiction.
That led to me passing away.
Being a slave to this
substance, but I was
being self-centered.
Why?
Because I was holding onto
this resentment without
giving one thought, not one
thought to what this other
person who abused me might
have gone through as a child.
Never even considered
it in 20 years.
That this guy, maybe he
was sexually molested when
he was a little child, an
innocent little defenseless
child, never considered it.
So that kind of gave
me pause to think for
a minute about it.
So he said, don't you
think that's a little
bit self-centered?
And I said, I guess maybe.
And then he was like would,
if you knew that he had been
sexually molested, would that
cause you to have a little
bit of compassion toward him?
And then I imagined that maybe
he had been sexually molested.
And then I did have a
feeling of compassion and
that was the beginning of
being able to let it go.
Like realizing that I had been
holding onto this thing and
that it was self-centered,
gave me a little, I
had to overcome myself,
Get out of my own way,
if that makes sense.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
So it was an aha moment,
but it was a small,
it was a beginning.
It wasn't like a
gone all of a sudden.
It was just, that's how
you were able to start and
Branden Densmore: Yep.
And then I had a prayer
that I would say every day.
We could talk a lot
about forgiveness.
There's a lot of different
aspects to it and the process.
I don't know if you wanna
spend that, that much time
on the show talking about it.
Rod Bland: I've got about
15 minutes, so yeah, it's
really what's valuable to
the viewers, so I think
it would be valuable.
Branden Densmore: Okay.
Let's see, what else could
I say about forgiveness?
So letting it go.
And people say how
do you forgive?
How do you forgive someone
who sexually molested you?
In Alcoholics Anonymous,
they teach us that people are
sick, like spiritually ill.
So seeing the abuser as a
sick person, and that we can
forgive the offense that a
person does to us because
we realize that they are
sick and that even though
they have offended us,
that they're really on a
spiritual level, a friend.
Somewhere inside of the
person is like a pure spirit
or spiritual being, somewhere.
Even if we can't see it,
there's a pure soul there.
But it's been distorted
because they're
ill, they're sick.
So getting in touch with
compassion for other people
and it, like I said before,
it's a bitter pill to swallow.
Rod Bland: Yeah, it's
a lot easier to go that
person or what they did
is demonic in, in a way.
For want of a better
term, as opposed to
they're ill and sick and
Yeah it's a way forward.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
It's a way forward.
And it's tough with the kind
of world that we live in
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: with
all of the terrible
atrocities that happen.
But I had held onto this
thing for 20 years and it
was driving my behavior
and it had transformed
me into an angry person
living an angry lifestyle.
I needed to find a way
to really let it go.
I think a lot of people are in
this kind of a situation now.
This doesn't mean that that
his behavior was ex excused,
that I'm excusing his
behavior by forgiving him.
That's not what this is about.
Rod Bland: Yep.
He just reframing it in a way.
Branden Densmore: It's not
his behavior was right.
But when you understand that
we've come from that we're
I look at it like this, is
that we're essentially apes.
Like we have we're animals.
Spiritual beings, animals are
spiritual beings, but we're
essentially animals that have
animal ape-like behavior.
And you see this kind of
thing, domestic abuse,
violence and stuff like
that in the animal kingdom.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: We have
these base instincts.
But if you understand that,
it becomes a little bit
more understandable too that
these kind of atrocities
manipulations abuses that
war, violence, all that
kind of stuff that, that
exists in this world.
When you look at the
animal kingdom, And the
world of nature, you
realize how violent of
a place that is now.
There's love, there's
compassion, there's all
that good stuff in nature.
There's beauty, but it's
a violent place too.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: This
is where we come from.
We are, we come from
nature, but we're, I believe
that we are evolving into
more conscious creators
of our own destiny.
Rod Bland: Yeah,
I believe that too.
I think that's, that's
why I'm doing this.
That's why you we're having
this conversation with you,
because if we didn't believe
that we're becoming more
conscious and loving beings,
then, what's the point?
I think that's where
everybody's going
and you could either
participate in that or not.
So yeah,
Branden Densmore: And we're
of, growing out of that
violent kind of nature.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Yeah.
Branden Densmore:
more conscious.
But the reason I went
into that diatribe is
that it makes the abuses
that we endure a little
bit more understandable.
Rod Bland: Yep.
I guess you, you look
at it this way, the
contribution that you've
made since your recovery,
the people that you've
impacted, that wouldn't
have happened unless
you'd gone through that.
You went through that process.
I think it's part of, what do
you want your life to mean?
You want to get to the end of
your life and just be angry.
Just die angry, or do you
wanna be something else?
Something I forgot to ask you
was a lot of people who I've
spoken to after their near
death experiences, it opens
up these latent abilities
that they'd never had before.
Extrasensory abilities.
Have you had any other
spiritually transformative
experiences or anything or
have you noticed anything
like being empathic or
anything like that since
you've had our NDE?
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Experienced a lot of
different abilities that
have awakened and but I did
have a spiritual visitation
about a year after the,
that near death experience
that I described before.
Rod Bland: Okay.
Tell us about.
Branden Densmore: But the
purpose of the 12 steps is to
have a spiritual awakening.
So 12th step.
The 12th step is having
had a spiritual awakening.
We bring this message to
other alcoholics, right?
And in the back of the
big book, there's an
appendix entry about
spiritual experiences.
And Bill Wilson, the creator
of Alcoholics Anonymous,
had a spiritual type
experience of visitation.
They call it a white
light experience.
But in the back of the
big book, it says that not
everybody has these kind
of white light experiences.
That they're usually
more gradual kinds of
spiritual experiences
that happen when you've
gone through the 12 steps.
But I had one of these white
light type experiences.
I had been, having a kind of
a hard time with my recovery
and prayed vigilantly for
during a morning and About my
situation, and I was taking
a shower one day and through
the ceiling came a light.
You know how you, if
you look into a, the
distance on a hot day and
everything goes like this,
Rod Bland: Yeah,
like a mirage.
Branden Densmore: what
it was like coming
through my ceiling.
Rod Bland: Okay.
Branden Densmore: And,
Rod Bland: were
you surprised?
You're like,
Branden Densmore: I was
like, wow, what is that?
And
I'm in the shower,
taking a shower.
This comes through the
ceiling and all of a sudden
I'm penetrated by it.
And it was like
the most peaceful.
Loving, kind of dynamic energy
that I could ever imagine.
And it went through
every aspect of my being.
So when this thing came
through the ceiling, I
started having all of these
thoughts first of all,
I didn't know was this
God, was this an angel?
What is this?
And then I could feel
the power and the
love of this thing.
And I started having all
of these thoughts like,
oh, I'm not worthy to
have this experience.
I've messed up in life.
I've done X, Y, and z.
Rod Bland: Why me?
Branden Densmore: it, it
didn't care in the slightest.
Like it, I felt like
it was reading my mind
or it knew the thoughts
and the feelings
that I was having.
And it was like, it
looked past those
thoughts and feelings.
It looked through them.
It penetrated through the
thoughts and the feelings
through my body, through
every aspect of me.
And it had nothing
but love and respect.
And it was mind blowing and
baffling all at the same time.
And I just started crying.
I was just like, oh, wow.
This is unbelievable.
I just had so much
gratitude that this being
revealed itself to me.
Rod Bland: It's a pretty
rare thing, isn't it?
To feel zero judgment
and love regardless.
Branden Densmore: Zero.
Zero judgment.
Rod Bland: yeah.
Branden Densmore: And I
feel like that kind of
awakened something in me
where I'm able to speak with
people without judgment.
Cuz people tell me, their
problems, things that they've
gone through, things that
they're going through and
they expect a judgment.
But I'm able to just, that
maybe that's one of the
abilities that's awakened,
Is the ability to listen
to people and to not
judge them whatsoever.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
That's interesting.
So I've just got two, two more
questions for you, Brandon.
Firstly I'll say I think
you are one of the most
brave people I've ever
spoken to in my entire
life, and I've spoken to a
couple now as a result of
this work that I'm doing.
But I think to face down,
knowing what you would have
to go through to recover,
man, that takes some bravery
and to face down your past
experiences and go, okay I'm
going to move past those and
just live a better life and
forget about being angry.
That, that really
takes something.
So speaking about life,
so what do you consider to
be living a good life now?
It sounds like your life
is pretty good, but what
do you consider that, that
to be the essential parts?
Branden Densmore: Finding,
finding meaning l leading
a meaningful kind of life,
which for me it's and my
business and helping people
and going on shows like
yours, Rod, sharing my
story and following that
and improving, but finding
a way to be comfortable and
happy fulfilled in life.
And it's not all
about striving either.
Sometimes you need to strive,
but other times it's nice to
just relax and be comfortable.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore:
To enjoy life.
Rod Bland: And where can
people find more about when
we'll put in the show notes
or the description more about
you, but where can people find
out more about what you do
Branden Densmore:
Facebook's good.
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: Brandon
Densmore, b r a n d e n,
Densmore, D E N S M O R E.
Brandon Densmore I'm a
certified spiritual coach.
Rod Bland: Okay.
Branden Densmore: I'm also
a business consultant.
And feel free to reach
out if you have any
questions about that.
It's my passion.
I love it.
And Facebook is good.
You can also reach me at
CoachBrandonDensmore@gmail.com.
Rod Bland: Excellent.
All right.
Thank you so much for
coming on the show.
I really appreciate you being
open about the questions.
And I think that the
viewers will have gotten
a great deal out of this.
And wish you well.
Branden Densmore: Thank you.
My pleasure.
Glad to be here.
